Wednesday, July 8, 2009

The Living-Together Lie

There is the emotional attachment that isn't proper for someone who isn't your wife or husband. I know boundless has had more about it than this, but here are a couple of links:
and related, but not explicitly:

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I find this to be a telling statement:

I'm not bothered at all by which view is correct since it won't change my personal actions one bit.

I don't care what the truth is, I'm going to do what I want anyway. The fact that one person (or which particular one) said it is irrelevant. It's a recurring mindset that has permeated the Church from culture.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth....

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I thought it important to include the preceding comment (to the above comment) to which my comment was related.

Really, I'm not invested in this issue at all, but I'm just not 100% sure that there's a clear distinction between sex and marriage in spiritual terms. in the passage you quoted there is - but you could argue that that's a cultural distinction, ie in that woman's culture marriage existed but she was not married - does Jesus condemn this behaviour, or is His mentioning it simply a sign to the woman that He knows all about her?

Again, I'm totally open to persuasion and I'm not bothered at all by which view is correct since it won't change my personal actions one bit. It's just something I wonder about.

To which I responded above. I then received the following constructive feedback:
Brian K, 52:
It was me who posted the 'telling statement' that you quoted, and you totally misunderstood what I meant. You summarised my view as:
"I don't care what the truth is, I'm going to do what I want anyway."

In fact if you'd read my earlier post, you'd know that I fully intend to remain a virgin 'til I'm married. The answer to this particular question of mine (whether having unmarried sex and staying together is sin or not) will not affect my actions whatsoever because that isn't something I plan to do anyway, not because I don't care about following God.
Actually to be honest I'm quite offended by your characterisation of me. Please don't assume motives like that without even reading what someone has written before. I would like to think that my posts across all topics demonstrate that I do in fact care what God thinks and aim to align my actions with His will.

Thus I respond:


First, I just wanted to say that I had read your comment, I was really trying to chew on what you said (I know, you were waiting on pins and needles ;-). I apologize for offending. I don’t purposefully write to offend. I should have stated your position on premarital sex as a construct.

I do, however, still stand by what I said (perhaps I should simply have broadened it to state that you do not believe in premarital sex….yes, I did read what you wrote prior). I purposefully didn’t include you stating it for that reason, and also that’s why I said it’s irrelevant who wrote it. It’s a mindset that you specifically state and it does define the culture in which we live. It’s stated often even on this blog (there was another statement similar to it on another post shortly after). After reading your clarification, I suppose I more or less see your line of reason, though, what I quoted makes a very absolute statement. I guess I think of it this way. Assuming that you are or eventually will be discipling/teaching/counseling someone (hey, counseling!). Someone says “I had sex with my boyfriend” or thinking about it. Now it matters what is correct and not. Truth is truth never mind what your personal motives may be. I think what you are saying, though, is that you will remain a virgin and won’t sleep with anyone prior to marriage, so it doesn’t matter about what is viewed as “marriage”. I guess I would just say that you should consider what the biblical construct (what is correct) for it may be prior to that discipling relationship (something to which we are commanded). Personal motives don’t cut it if they are divorced from God.

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1) I see dating (in a form) in Ruth and again in Song of Solomon.
2) as a general rule, people who date--Christian or not, cohabiting or not--are going to be having sex. This wasn’t (and isn’t) always the case (of course it also With cohabitating (not missionary/transient housing) have, as a general rule, always been. Dating can be a wonderful tool to get to know someone’s character given the culture we are in currently (since people move out of their parents home quickly and tend to resist getting rooted in a church), but can easily lead to sexual immorality. Mostly that’s due to the fact that we have a tendency to be fiercely independent and don’t want to admit that there should be boundaries on behavior, then act surprised when it happens (“golly, we just kind of fell into it!”). To me, when dating is seen as a tool to glorify God that leads to determine marriage (but not getting there), it’s great. It goes awry when we let our heart go unrestrained. There’s a lot on this site especially that codifies Godly dating, I’m just trying to be brief.
3) Just to be clear, the Bible is my authority for arranged marriages and not your family heritage. Just as I wouldn’t (nor did the author) make an absolute prohibition against men and women living under the same roof, be careful about making a statement of the bible being your authority for arranged marriages. Arranged marriages are not prescriptive, they’re descriptive. And dating (getting to know your partner) is seen in the bible also (see SoS and Ruth).
4) I think there is a great case for the concept of arranged marriages (especially in the modified version mentioned here, but I scanned and didn’t see it). I think this can get just as problematic in a different way, too (parents arranging based on monetary reasons).
5) Also, regarding Can you say for a fact that a couple that lives together are more likely to engage in premarital sex than those who don’t…”, if people approach dating the way FotF/Boundless does, then yes, I can say that.

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It makes sense.


I agree, especially with #1.

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